Index
- Intro
- Posts where Hal Jordan win
- Posts where Ben Tennyson win
- It's the final countdown
- Will Hal Jordan win?
- Let's see what Ben can do
- Who wins?
- FIGHT!
Intro
Listen, I'm sure many people are fed up with this conflict, and if they're fed up, why do they keep reading? Why do they keep talking about it? If they're tired of it, why do they comment, why do they argue, why do they reply?
I repeatedly see posts about this fight in various places: agree, disagree, posts, criticisms, replies, debunks.
In the end, those who don't want to let this topic die are the people who want the topic to die.
Why do I make posts? Besides it being fun, I don't like hypocrisy and double standards, I hate hive minds and echo chambers. I believe we can all change that to be a better community and, in turn, be better people.
(By the way, I've noticed that Death Battle uses users' arguments a lot. If Death Battle team sees this, they can read the arguments and use them, but in their own words and from their own point of view. Don't make a blatant copy hoping no one will notice you're using someone else's arguments.)
By being fair I mean that if they talk so much about Hal's cosmology, they should also talk about Ben's cosmology. Do they think Ben's cosmology is less than Hal's cosmology? Let's see.
To begin, let's see what both characters can do.
Posts where Hal Jordan win
Ben 10 VS Green Lantern (Cartoon Network VS DC Comics) | DEATH BATTLE!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hos7hv1Cn8
Q&A: Ben 10 VS Green Lantern | DEATH BATTLE Cast #129: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQujpsgd428
Okay, you could say it all started with Death Battle. Then Death Battle released a video responding to all the "criticisms" they received, generally just mentioning why everything Ben 10 can do, he can't actually do, and why everything Ben does or could do, Hal denies, isn't affected by, or surpasses.
Personal opinión: this is one of the worst matchups in Death Battle. They didn't explain well why Hal won, and if they had the evidence, they didn't present it properly. Furthermore, they didn't show most of Ben's feats, and by showing Ben losing, even if you agree with that, it simply wasn't convincing. It seems the Q&A video was only there to answer all of Kuro's arguments.
Analysis of the fight, done by other bloggers, what can be said, if for you one character is only universal and the other multiversal, the latter character is going to win. It's like watching Dragon Ball up to the Cell saga and saying that Goku is only solar system level, okay Superman wins, he defeated multiversal beings, that's it, yes okay, the problem with that is that they didn't watch the whole series or as it should be watched.Personal opinion: users don't give Ben the level he deserves, and if they get annoying saying, "Oh, DC's scale is bigger," or "Only Alien X could stand up to Hal," have these people scaled Ben correctly, or do they even know his cosmology to begin with?In other words, did they take into account the different and possibly infinite versions of the character, across all timelines? All the variables that could influence it? From fusions and transformations to modifications of the Omnitrix, among other things?In other words, if you give Hal the best of each incarnation, and you remove all the anti-feats, shouldn't you do the same with Ben?
Posts where Ben Tennyson win
Why Ben 10 Can Beat Goku, Superman, and Pretty Much ANYONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrCOqcpFyIsKuro's videos, I think, are the best structured critique of Death Battle; it seems Death Battle even had to do an entire podcast chapter to respond to him.
Personal opinion: These are primarily video responses explaining why Ben 10 might win and refuting claims from Death Battle analyses. Because of their counter-argument nature, they don't necessarily have to be impartial. When you make a video like "Sonic beats...", for example, you have to explain how that character affects the others you're comparing. On the other hand, a Q&A cast about Ben versus Hal, if it should be impartial, must include questions and answers about the other character and investigate that character's abilities as well, not just say in summary: "Hal can withstand this, so we take Hal's best qualities and remove all of Ben's advantages."
Many criticized Kuro for being a fanboy and many users attacked Death Battle using Kuro's arguments. I don't validate any of those actions, I'm just telling the truth. Death Battle wasn't impartial, while Kuro's videos were better presented.
Hal Jordan/Green Lantern (DC Comics) vs. Ben Tennyson (Ben 10) Death Battle DEBUNKED. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvRKwXCTq4
This video debunk every point made by Death Battle, I recommend you watch the whole thing.
Personal opinion: Many people comment that Ben 10's failsafe wouldn't work all time, or that the watch could be easily damaged. This video explains why the ring's protection isn't infallible anyway, and it can be destroyed just as easily. If you're going to say the Omnitrix fails or has weak points, let's say the same about the Green Lantern ring. Things should only be considered at their maximum, as Death Battle says. If you're only going to consider Ben's anti-feats, it's not impartial.
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_(Hal_Jordan)
VS Battles Wiki puts Alien X above Hal
Personal opinion: "But VS Battles Wiki is wrong." "Don't cook anymore." It's sad that you think your opinion is the only valid one. I didn't create the power scaling system; VS Battle itself has a section to discuss DC cosmology and the considerations that must be taken with the characters.
This is incorrect, but is it correct to say that Ben is only universal and that nothing Ben possesses affects Hal simply because his scale and true power were never taken into account?
Green Lantern (Canon, Hal Jordan)/GoldenMaster7 https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_(Canon,_Hal_Jordan)/GoldenMaster7
Green Lantern (Canon, Hal Jordan, Post-Crisis)/SteelAvenger99: https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_(Canon,_Hal_Jordan,_Post-Crisis)/SteelAvenger99Character Stats and Profiles Wiki places Hal Jordan as a high multiversal being, with immeasurable, infinite values.
The same Wiki puts Alien X with similar and even higher values
Ben 10, Outer arguments given by different users, as well as his Nigh-Omniscient arguments, and again, I didn't create the power scales or their rules. If you don't buy Outer Ben, don't buy him. Similarly, I shouldn't buy Outer Hal.
It's the final countdown
Hal wins:
- Hal wins according to Death Battle, however his video has the most dislikes according to percentage
- Hal wins according to G1 Death Battle Fan Blogs, however this blog is about DB predictions and it's not always correct, as in the case of Omni-Man VS Bardock
Ben wins:
- Ben wins according to Kuro and The Unknown Adventuer Warrior, Their videos were better received and provided a better critique and response to Death Battle than Death Battle gave to their followers. I don't have any notable criticism.
- Ben wins according to VS Battles Wiki and Character Stats and Profiles Wiki, I don't have any notable criticism.
Will Hal Jordan win?
Now I just need to mention this version of Hal, which I believe is the most powerful version of Hal at the time the DB video was released.I think there are other posts and arguments, but these are the main ones.I have nothing to say, take it if you want. I said I was going to explain why Ben wins, being fair to both characters. Having said that, do you believe that no countless combination, variable, energy control, arsenal, technology, intellect, or hax can even scratch Hal? let's see.
This also premiered before the Death Battle episode. If we're going to start talking about temporary versions of Hal Jordan, then let's also talk about temporary versions of Ben. And yes, the entire Cartoon Network and Warner Bros. multiverse is one cosmology, not a crossover without plot value. "Crossover Nexus" is simply the title of the OK K.O. episode that takes place within the same multiverse, If it were "only a crossover", then DC would be too.
All-American Publications, Inc. was one of two American comic book companies that merged to form the modern-day DC Comics. Superheroes created for All-American include the original Atom, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and Wonder Woman, all in the 1940s' Golden Age of Comic Books.
Shazam (formerly Captain Marvel) from Fawcett Comics. He was the most popular superhero of the 1940s, even more so than Superman. DC acquired the rights in the 1970s.Plastic Man was created by Quality Comics in 1941 by Jack Cole. DC acquired the rights in the 1950s.Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) originating from Charlton Comics. Although the original Blue Beetle character was created by Fox Comics in the 1930s, the Ted Kord version was developed by Charlton and later acquired by DC.
In fact, thanks to Charlton's characters like The Question and Captain Atom among others, Watchmen was created based on Sentinels of Justice.
Events at Cartoon Network or Warner Bros. in general are no different from those at DC.
Let's see what Ben can do
Who is the strongest Cartoon Network character
Who wins?
According to Death Battle, Hal travels through time and defeats Ben before he transforms. I suppose that with this, combined with Hal's power, he can erase the other Alien X he left behind in the future. Later, Death Battle explains why the scissors are faster than the Big Bang, among other things.
- First, if the animation doesn't matter, I don't understand why the team is defending it.
- Second, if Hal surpasses Alien X, then time travel wasn't necessary in the first place.
- Third: if the outcome doesn't matter, okay, then make Ben win.
- Expert pilot with military training.
- If it's willpower we're talking about, he's the best.
- Chosen by the Green Lantern ring.
- He is a member of the Green Lantern Corps and the Justice League.
- He's a Persona fan
- Generally a teenager in most of its incarnations
- A fan of heroes, if it's about being heroic, he's the best.
- He obtained the Omnitrix by mistake, in most of his incarnations.
- He's one of the plumbers.
- He has a badass grandfather
FIGHT!
Many start comparing their speed or strength, which is irrelevant, when a character is immeasurable or has outer arguments the whole debate focuses on who has a better coin for victory.
I have another way of evaluating combat
Hal Jordan without the ring vs. Ben 10 without the Omnitrix
Just the fists, I'm not counting Hal creating his own ring, military weapons and all the transformations, or Ben having his DNA configured, or having all the Plumbers technology and Ascalon at his disposal.
Ben 10 has training with the Plumbers, but Hal has military training too, While Hal is more committed, Ben is more carefree; Ben is creative in fighting, but Hal has incredible willpower, in addition to having a great imagination.
What would give Hal the victory would be experience; while Ben is a teenager in most of his versions, Hal is an adult, has real training, and takes things more seriously.
Hal would beat Ben 90% of the times. Knowing Ben, he could win sometimes, but only if he uses the field, his creativity, and plays dirty, like putting dirt in his eyes and things like that. But he has to win in one blow because with Hal's willpower, if the fight drags on, Ben is lost.
Victory for Hal Jordan, Well done, you beat a kid
Hal Jordan without the ring vs. Ben adult without the Omnitrix
Now what? I already said that Hal won last time because of Ben's lack of experience, but now the problem is different. Ben 10 is much more adaptable than Hal and has more hand-to-hand combat experience. I'm not saying Hal is inexperienced, but practically all his fights are resolved with the ring. The ring creates constructs, which, while sometimes body parts, are other times practical things that don't resolve a fight. Hal has more imagination than Ben, But Ben was literally dozens of different aliens, with different shapes and sizes, fighting hand-to-hand with several of his enemies, who outnumbered and outsized him.
Imagination and willpower are important, but I don't think Hal can beat someone so experienced in hand-to-hand combat with just those. Hal has military training, but adult Ben received similar training. Ben would win 80% of the time. What would sometimes give Hal the victory would be his willpower and dedication, but in practice, when you're a Green Lantern, you don't rely much on hand-to-hand combat. You could spend most of your time flying, creating pincers for much of your work.
Hal without his ring is a normal person, determined and trained, but a normal person. Ben without the Omnitrix is still useful, he has creativity, speed, and makes better use of the field and combat experience, like the Grudge Match episode.
Victory for Ben 10, Well done, you beat a noble person (???)
Hal Jordan with the ring vs. Ben 10 with the Omnitrix
Okay, now we'll jump ahead. I'd like to talk about the characters' other weapons, but mentioning conventional weapons or things the characters only used on rare occasions isn't relevant, especially since it wouldn't give any of them an advantage. Maybe only the sword of Ascalon would be an exception. But saying that Hal beats normal Ben using a plane or that Ben wins with a sword until I deign to give Hal a ring is boring.
If we give Hal his ring once and for all, and Ben his Omnitrix (not counting Alien X), I think Hal will win the fight. Now I'm not going to say something stupid like Ben's failsafe doesn't work, or that nothing Ben has would affect Hal. Hal wins for two reasons: scale and willpower. I think Ben's powers are more adaptable, but Green Lantern's are more practical. Both have energy control powers, and both have automatic safety mechanisms. But Hal's power is all based on willpower. It would be easier for Green Lantern to scale higher than Ben.
Leaving aside the discussion of whether Ben can clone Hal's DNA and hack the ring, or whether Hal can create his own Omnitrix with enough willpower, and that the scissors are faster than the Big Bang, I think it's a battle of adaptability versus growth, Ben's Omnitrix can adapt to things like direct attacks towards the omnitrix, death of the user, and the Big Bang, THEREFORE IT'S ALSO FASTER THAN THE BIG BANG, and I'm sure it can adapt to anything that has the ring. That's not the point; The point is that Green Lantern is OK, WILLPOWER, LOL, all combinations, variables or combos are useless if Green Lantern's power is "I CAN'T HANDLE THIS, SO NOW I'M STRONGER"
Ben could win, but that would require taking his ring, and that's considering things that don't correspond to the character's full potential. Ben's Omnitrix would adapt to everything the ring has for it and is more difficult to extract because it has demonstrated more consistent automatic security systems, plus it is fused with his DNA. Hal's ring could be taken off like he takes off his shoes, but I think we should consider each character's maximum potential, and Hal's maximum is not having his ring taken off every two seconds.
Victory for Hal Jordan, Well done, you beat a kid with a powerful weapon, but a kid
Hal Jordan with the ring vs. Alien X
Ok, here's the fun part, and here Ben wins.
If we are going to be taking the characters at their maximum then let Ben start with Alien X in combat. and while Hal is multiversal, immeasurable, and has outer arguments, Alien X also has them and more; it has better hyperversal arguments and things like feats of Nigh-Omniscience and Nigh-Omnipotence. In fact, this is seen in the series because he built the entire universe.
Even Paradox declared him omnipotent, and this goes beyond being hyperbole or whatever the writers say. When a character with so much intelligence and relevance to the plot states something like that, and they even show us what the character is capable of, then there are no doubts left in the logic. Yes, he lost before, AGAINST ANOTHER CELESTIALSAPIEN. Besides, that's the argument of Guts VS Nightmare; if one character surpasses another, there's no argument to say that the character loses, unless Hal's power surpasses it, and I don't agree.
Ben could erase him from existence in one fell swoop, take the ring from him like Dr. Manhattan did, copy the ring, because if he recreated the universe I don't understand why he can't copy something like that even with minimal changes. And no, just because Dr. Manhattan couldn't fully understand the ring doesn't mean it couldn't be replicated. In fact, he was even beginning to understand magic at that time. Ben recreated a universe with magic, timelines, dimensions, species and other things I won't explain.
In fact, he can pull off the move of multiplying himself, merging with any aliens he wants or needs, traveling to all points and timelines, and boom, TTGL REFERENCE, can Hal do the same? With so many things affecting him? Again, I don't think so. Alien X is infinitely more powerful.
Victory for Ben 10, the hero
Spectre Hal Jordan vs. Nexus Ben
I'm sure the Spectre Hal would beat Alien X. a nigh-omnicient being with immeasurable power it seems like something the Justice League could defeat in a week; it would be tough, but they always win in the end. btw, I think Alien X loses here due to a lack of feats and experience, not because of scale or power, and i think the debate between Alien X vs Spectre Hal or Dr. Manhattan is more debatable than those who nerf Alien X can admit. The problem is, if we consider the various temporary versions of Hal, let's also analyze Ben's, and the latter far surpasses them in this regard. He has not only demonstrated the ability to transform into Outer Beings without a doubt, but into several that can multiply, merge, and much more.
- Strike's powers are so great that they surpass the powers of someone who can have all of DC's powers, And they're the canon versions according to TTG lore.
- Ben has the scale of all the Hanna-Barbera characters thanks to Moxy, So Space Jam scale, the Looney Tunes are cartoons in Space Jam, therefore another layer of transcendence; in fact, Bugs Bunny is the animator in Duck Amuck, and he is animated in Rabbit Rampage.
- Black Hat scale who sees all of Cartoon Network as fiction.
- Chowder and Uncle Grandpa, who have incredibly powerful plot manipulation, even the latter can decide whether an episode is canon or not.
- Will they also cover the scale of CN City and how CN characters invaded Nickelodeon?
But that's when the Death Battle episode came out, and now, Ben simply sweep,
- We can count the entire X-tintion scale and say that now all of Ben's aliens have omniversal scale, thanks to an outlier battle with Alien X.
- The entire multiversus scale puts several Warner characters on the level of Superman; if Ben can transform into all of them, Ben surpasses them, through combinations and transcendence (and the comic it's all canon, remember Hypertime?).
- The entire Timmverse scale, which is now more canon with events like Crisis on Infinite Earths (DCAU) In fact, the entire multiverse can be considered outer scale even before that, due to things like the Hand of Creation, the Speed Force, and Flashpoint.
- It would also be good if you mentioned Control Freak's TV World and his scale. And how did the Teen Titans react to Space Jam, which is nothing more than fiction within fiction, another layer of transcendence
Is Nexus just a crossover? No! It's an OK K.O. episode that doesn't break the logic of the works or their continuities, and it's part of all those infinite Warner/CN universes. Surprise! DC does exactly the same thing.
Ben wins if you count the maximum for both characters. Hal wins if you take the temporary versions of Hal and compare them to the non-temporary version of Ben (like Nexus Ben). Ben wins if you take the consistent versions of both characters (by consistent I mean that they don't have a transformation they no longer have, Like Spectre or Nexus)
If you count what the characters had back then (Death Battle episode) Ben wins
if you count what the characters have today, Ben wins.
Hal only wins with temporary versions of the character, and only if you don't count Nexus.
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